does this piss you off ?

topic posted Mon, August 18, 2008 - 12:08 PM by  pj
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My grandfather on my moms side is half Indian. There is no history to follow before that due to adoption. So here I am pure Irish on my fathers side, french and Indian, I don't look it at all, my mom does, I don't. I like that part of me the best and think somehow that little bit of blood in my viens makes me a little native. Does that piss you off ?

What pisses me off ? Victoria BC anthropoligy students, I was sitting with a table of them, with to lesbians and debating the womens role in what they called "primitive" peoples. They are convinced threw UVIC in Victoria bc that women have never had a better place in the world then now, and that Natives in North America were brutal towards women and that there were just objects for men.

For me that word "primiative" seems misplaced at the least. For what I know the 1st people here where increadable evolved socialy and full of culture, I find it more "primative" to live alone in a unit watching a box. The idea that people are the inventions they make that build up in a society over time make them advanced bothers me. I understand math and and all that... but what could be more primative that distroying the things around you that provide you with life.

Also to imagine that women hated their lives and would be happier sitting single and with no family in pub in victoira bc with full time jobs makes me question what is being taught in school. They didn't seem like they learned outside of school, so it must still be taught.

Anyways does it piss you off for a mostly white privlaged guy like myself to be proud of my 1/8 unknown native blood ? Does the word Primative piss you off ? How about the feminist view of womens rights in the "primitive" peoples lives ?
posted by:
pj
offline pj
Canada
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: does this piss you off ?

    Mon, August 18, 2008 - 8:53 PM
    You can always choose to bee something different beesides "pissed off"... That's about as "Native American" as it gets, kiddo.
    • pj
      pj
      offline 40

      Re: does this piss you off ?

      Tue, August 19, 2008 - 2:50 PM
      WTF ? Are you some sort of christian thug ?
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: does this piss you off ?

        Wed, August 20, 2008 - 2:47 AM
        Ummmm never been to prison... I was in the Army though... I'm not Christian. That's like calling someone an indian or a nigg.... Well, you get the idea, right? No, I just happen to know the person in Charge of Miracles so.... That's all I'm saying. What's your conflict??? I don't have one. Thanks
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    Re: does this piss you off ?

    Mon, August 18, 2008 - 8:54 PM
    Primitive... That's Animal Humans, right??? Natives weren't Animals... All kinds of Natives... All kinds of Indians... But that a name Boat People called The People on this continent when they came... So yep
  • Re: does this piss you off ?

    Fri, August 22, 2008 - 4:55 PM
    I find that the referencing of any indigenous culture as primitive only shows the ignorance of the people who say such things. One only has to look at the pyramids and the technology that went into building these without modern tools. And what of the Mayans and their deep understanding of mathematics, astronomy, and the extremely accurate calendar system they created. Not to mention the amazing pyramids that they also built. Then look at the influence the Iroquois Confederacy had on the infant United States. Not quite the primitives that history has envisioned.
    As to Native American women being better off today? I think there are many on the Pine Ridge, Fort Peck, or other reservations that would beg to differ. Pine Ridge is the poorest county in the country. The incidence of rape and drug abuse on the reservations do not make for a pleasant place for women to live. Head up north to Canada and women have gone missing and there is little movement by the Canadian government to solve the problem. In truth, in the old ways this type of behavior would not be tolerated. The community would put an end to it. The offender could be ostracized. Honor was held in high esteem. To lose one's honor was to lose one's life and walk as a shadow on this earth.

    Do not waste energy on people like this. Why waste anger on them. Rather you should pity them their ignorance. As far as your blood, if you are 1/8th you have more blood than others who are recognized. So it is up to you. Search your families history. Where was the ancestor you are claiming your blood, living? This will help you isolate possible tribes. Of course, if they were a transplant, then it becomes harder. Is there any relative that is still living who might have an inkling? So basically, you have some homework.
    Of course coming into it with, "Anyways does it piss you off for a mostly white privlaged guy like myself to be proud of my 1/8 unknown native blood ?", isn't going to win over any one to help you in your search. Just simply say that you have found that you are 1/8 and are in search of your heritage and looking for help. Given that many are not listed on the roles, and some attempted to blend in to avoid the Indian Schools, it may be a tough row to hoe. persistence and patience are your greatest tools. Be willing to wait for answers as there may be some who are willing to help, but they too need time to do research.
    Take the chip off your shoulder and walk in beauty and you will find many will come to help.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: does this piss you off ?

      Fri, August 22, 2008 - 6:10 PM
      The shorter the response, the more truthful.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: does this piss you off ?

        Fri, August 22, 2008 - 6:11 PM
        You can choose something else beesides beeing angry...
        • pj
          pj
          offline 40

          Re: does this piss you off ?

          Sat, August 23, 2008 - 12:14 PM
          him, sorry I wasn't angry at all perhaps you got my tone wrong.

          I do get angry like I said about what people coming out of University for Anthropoligy are thinking.... I think you have to feel mad sometimes or you are not heathy, not aware.

          I don't find the length of a response is related to its truth at all. Most lies are short, some as short as--- No.
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            Re: does this piss you off ?

            Sat, August 23, 2008 - 5:00 PM
            That's a nice perspective... however... I say K N O W.... you don't have to bee mad or angry at anything... You have free will.
            • Re: does this piss you off ?

              Wed, October 1, 2008 - 4:29 AM
              "Primitive" comes from the Latin word for first, i.e. primus. It's not necessarily an insult. It just means something that came before, in time terms. In fact, it might mean something better, especially if things have degenerated in the meantime. So, people who use the word primitive as a condescending insult are stupid. Maybe they are ignoramuses. They probably aren't cretins, but they could be fools. That's just not what it means.
              • Re: does this piss you off ?

                Sun, October 5, 2008 - 12:08 PM
                Indeed. Many would think of the Aztecs and Incans as primitive, but think of this. Who gave us the zero? Look at the amazing calendar they created. Look at the ruins and the engineering marvel they are. Indeed, sometimes primitive can mean better. I just returned from Sedona. I visited a few ruins there. Imagine, buildings that were abandoned around 1400/1500 that are still standing. Can you imagine a house today that was left for this many years with no one living in them? Add to that the knowledge and wisdom to live in harmony with their surroundings instead of trying to force their surroundings to fit their needs.
          • Re: does this piss you off ?

            Tue, December 16, 2008 - 1:02 PM
            Just reading over this conversation so far, i thought i'd bring your attention to a book that may help you take on the so-called "well educated". Have you heard of: _Unlearning the Language of Conquest_? I don't remember the author off-hand, but part of it is on the university of texas website.

            I'm sharing this idea because a lot of the "well educated" have been programmed to not *be able* to listen to anything that isn't "scholarly" in the way that they call such.

            Now, you could make a large sign and stand outside such halls or places where these folks gather, and openly challenge them to read this book I mention. You'll probably find that other Native folks will come up to you, and that might be a way for you to have a nice time. And maybe even find out more about your heritage.
    • Re: does this piss you off ?

      Tue, March 3, 2009 - 8:15 PM
      "One only has to look at the pyramids and the technology that went into building these without modern tools. And what of the Mayans and their deep understanding of mathematics, astronomy, and the extremely accurate calendar system they created. Not to mention the amazing pyramids that they also built."

      All of this stuff is amazing, but listen to what you are saying: These cultures are being interpreted as "impressive" because of their *technological* accomplishments. By that standard, spaceships to the moon, CAT scans, and nanotechnology would be even more advanced.

      I think it's important to consider other measurements of what's "impressive" besides technology. What about philosophy? Spirituality?

      The pyramids and calendar are special, but what was *done* with them is probably more important.
  • Re: does this piss you off ?

    Sat, November 1, 2008 - 3:35 PM
    Nothing pisses me off more than people assuming that material complexity equals superiority. If I were in your situation, I would also be proud. Stay proud. They cant keep us down forever - theirs' is a transient sort of wealth, ours is lasting.
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      Re: does this piss you off ?

      Fri, November 28, 2008 - 6:08 PM
      Well, that's called Hostility... Being angry without a reason... Perhaps you never thought these people know any better? Now, you know better...
  • Re: does this piss you off ?

    Tue, March 3, 2009 - 8:12 PM
    "Does the word Primitive piss you off?"

    The word has definitely come to have some really negative connotations, but don't forget that it initially meant "first" or "original". There are a lot of beliefs out there today that value a return to ancient, archaic, original states of being, which are viewed as being pure and uncorrupted (think of Adam and Eve before they got thrown out of the garden). It's not unusual for people to use the term "primitive" to try to evoke a sense of things that came first, which in a sense can also mean "traditional".

    While "primitive" can be truly nasty (think of those caveman commercials from GEICO), it's important to listen carefully to see how people are really using the term. In the 90s, the concept of "modern primitives" was considered to be something *good* in Anglo subcultures (though many other people see it as something deviant and weird).

    www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/Mo...imitives.html

    I can see how some people would find this stuff either incredibly offensive or just silly, but others would see it as something else. It's said that "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery".

    Does this remind you of a Sun Dance? Or is it just some strange sexual perversion? There are lots of different opinions.

    www.bodyplay.com/